Now Playing on JYB Films

Anatomy of the Comic Jihad


Movie File Host
YouTube YouTube
Putfile Putfile


Movie File Host
YouTube

The Meaning of Taqiyya







button02b
fpawbn
July 2007
Sun Mon Tue Wed Thu Fri Sat
1 2 3 4 5 6 7
8 9 10 11 12 13 14
15 16 17 18 19 20 21
22 23 24 25 26 27 28
29 30 31        
$1 Shipping for 4 days, only at Overstock.com!
button
Archives

Content Staff
Technical Staff
credit where due
This site is still alive and kicking thanks to the generosity and talents of Alan M. Carroll (aka Annoying Old Guy). Without him, the JYB would still be suffering with Blogger's bad code and long-term archive loss.
Powered by
Hosted By
Anti-Junk: 7719 sources banned.

THE ORIGINS OF MARRIAGE

Andrew Sullivan and others have shifted their tactics on gay marriage, arguing that it's not a religious ceremony or institution (they use the word "sacrament" in their arguments to separate it from Communion and other acts of worship) and thus religious teachings should carry no weight when defining it.

That's a curious position to take.

Did marriage originate with the Constitution? Or the Federalist papers? Or the Declaration of Independence? Nope. Marriage obviously existed long before any of those documents came to codify American values.

How about the Mayflower Compact? The Magna Charta? Nope. Marriage was around long before them too.

Marriage as an institution began, at least in written form relevant to our culture, in an explicitly religious context: The Bible.

Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
--Genesis 2:24


Genesis is about 5,000 years old, give or take a few centuries. The Western concept of marriage springs from this text--the Bible has defined Western morality for nearly 2,000 years and it defined morality for the Jews for thousands of years prior. Other cultures allowed and continue to allow for all sorts of other arrangements--multiple wives or husbands, concubines, etc, but the Biblical definition is one man and one woman joined forever. Many Biblical personalities defied this, which nearly always resulted in family conflict and chaos. The Biblical standard nonetheless is one man and one woman joined forever, and that standard is the basis for Western culture's understanding of marriage.

Before there was a Constitution or a Supreme Court, before there was even a "West" to have a culture, there was marriage, set out as a covenant between a man and a woman. The argument that marriage is purely a civil institute is bogus. Marriage was set out long before there was much distinction between civil and secular authority. The argument that it's anything other than a man-woman covenant is likewise bogus. Further, this one sentence from Genesis encapsulates much about marriage that we take for granted but seldom discuss. Leaving the parents' household, or leaving their authority, is part of marriage, but not everyone does it. How many marriages have been spoiled because the husband or wife refused to leave their parents (either in terms of moving to a new household or in terms of emotionally leaving behind that relationship to wholly devote themselves to their marriage)? How many family squabbles can be traced back to the simple idea that, once you're married, that relationship takes precedence over the old family ties? The failure to cut the strings from mommy and daddy's opinions and authority is often the root of marital conflict. And becoming one flesh--quickie, no-fault divorces have severely undermined that concept to the point that it's almost meaningless. But in the eyes of the law it still holds true to some extent. Husbands and wives can be held accountable for the debts incurred by their spouses. The concept of "community property" is derived from the "one flesh" idea. Children are literally and figuratively the result of the joining of the flesh, and in an ideal family they may look equally to the mother and father as one in terms of authority and instruction. Marital breakups usually even acknowledge the "one flesh" concept, else alimony and child support would not exist. They recognize that, though the marriage itself be dissolved, some obligations remain.

Gay marriage is, just by going back to the original source by which the institution is defined for our culture, a redefining of the institution and thus an alteration to our culture. It's hard to say how allowing it will affect society, but it will. The only question is to what extent.

We are a secular society, and that is for the most part a good thing, but this most basic institution springs from deeply religious roots. To say otherwise is to lie.

MORE: It isn't often that we have our darkest suspicions confirmed in an op-ed column, but it's happened today. Many, myself included, suspect that the gay marriage fight is really about destroying marriage and thus the family as an institution. In his Slate column today, pinhead pundit Michael Kinsley advocates abolishing marriage. He thinks it will settle the gay marriage debate once and for all. Perhaps, but in passing he alludes to the chaos that will undoubtedly follow such a move, trivializing it with a couple of hand waves.

That chaos won't be trivial, not by a long stretch. Consider health benefits derived from employment. Corporations today operate their benefit plans according to commonly understood definitions of family. A husband or wife's benefits package is almost always extended to the spouse and children as well as anyone under their legal guardianship. Erasing the legal bond of marriage, as Kinsley proposes as a way of settling the gay marriage debate, confuses who may and may not receive such benefits. Corporations draw lines around potential coverage to keep a lid on costs. It's no stretch at all to imagine one partner in a three- or four-way polyamorous non-marriage attempting to force his employer to cover not only all of his partners, but all of their children as well--even those to whom the employee has no biological or legal bond. If parent-child bonds are dissolved in the wake of abolishing marriage, anyone could designate anyone else for coverage just by establishing some tenuous relationship. After one or two lawsuits demanding such coverage, corporations will conclude that they either have to cover anyone who demands it (because you can't prove that Jimmy isn't Gary's "wife" without dropping in on their bedroom or forcing them to undergo invasive physical examination, and they have no legal relationship because marriage no longer exists as a legal concept) or drop health benefit plans altogether. Corporations will most often choose the latter, especially in tight economic times. Which at least in the short run will force more people to rely on government services, which would in turn become confused as to who may and may not benefit from things like Social Security. Without marriage as a legal Framework, the same three- or four-way polyamorous "husband" may declare anyone as a beneficiary to his Social Security account, and may likewise cut off anyone who actually deserved the coverage with a simple declaration.

Without some legal frame of reference what should the state do if, for instance, a "husband" declares in his will that the woman he has lived with for 60 years, and with whom he has raised four children, is not in fact his "wife" and shouldn't get his remaining Social Security benefit or take possession of their shared estate which happens to be in his name on the books? She has no legally binding proof that he did anything other than copulate with her four times (and her proof is only legally acceptable if blood tests have been done to ascertain paternity), and no legal standing to claim anything that didn't already have her name on it. In the age of Photoshop, a lifetime of family photographs won't cut it--they could easily be fakes. Even circumstantial evidence won't work if he declares in front of any third party at any time that she isn't his wife--she will have no legal standing if marriage isn't itself a legal concept. A certificate from the local Wal-Mart won't have any legal standing either--the couple could have bought dozens of them during their non-marriage, but not a one will make a bit of difference in the eyes of the law if marriage is legally dead.

To put it bluntly, the state needs marriage, if for no other reason than to greatly simplify its dealings with citizens. Without legally recognized marriage, things could get extremely unstable and crazy in parent-child relationships. Today, the concept of a parent is understood in most instances to be both a biological as well as a legal bond. Parents--biological or adopted--have preeminent rights when deciding nearly all things concerning the minor children under their care, even over their children's own wishes. Where applicable, both parents have equal say over their children in the eyes of the law. But why should this be? If the marriage bond itself is no longer recognized by the state, what then should we do with biological bonds between parent and child? In the absence of consent, the only legally consistent thing to do would be to dissolve them too, because giving biological bonds preeminence without the child's consent discriminates against anyone who cannot naturally procreate in the normal course of their chosen relationship. Marriage would have been abolished to end the discriminatory practice of limiting it to its traditional man-woman definition. Consistency would demand we do the same to parent-child relationships.

Abolishing the family would also open yet another door for men to escape their obligations to the children they sire and the women with whom they sire them--don't petition for legal rights and you're not the father, even if you are the biological father (can't discriminate based on biology). Since you aren't and could never be the husband, you have no potential obligations to the mother unless you volunteer, or if you are automatically obligated then so is everyone else (it's only fair). For irresponsible men, it's abortion without the murder. Husbands or wives might have to adopt one another in order to maintain the family structure for the purpose of taxes, property and so forth. All of this makes the state supremely powerful in all aspects of life, at the expense of even our most intimate relationships.

What effect will this have? It's hard to say, but with respect to the state it would likely atomize society. Children would have no legal parental shield from the state, thus giving the state legal authority to do practically anything it wants with them. Parents, having no legal bond between them, would have to go through all sorts of crazy legal contortions--defining themselves as a "class" or some such--in order to jointly fight anything the state does or anything anyone does to them as a family. In today's climate, it's not hard to imagine one child directly suing another for bullying or sexual harassment on the playground, with the defendant's parents powerless to do anything about it. Adults could potentially sue children, too.

I've offered some strange, contorted scenarios, but in a marriage-free world they are all possibilities. Organizations like the Children's Defense Fund already attack parental rights as a matter of course, and the state already has great leeway to remove children from homes that it has deemed unfit for almost any reason. Abolishing marriage in order to keep from hurting a tiny minority's feelings would just exacerbate and energize these tendencies. Parenting and habitation could become little more than a square dance between partners, homes and "families" if marriage itself is abolished as a legal concept.

Kinsley's proposition to abolish marriage--born of the gay marriage debate--is so potentially destructive it's difficult to put into words. That he so glibly, thoughtlessly proposes it says much about his attitude toward society. He would tear it all down to appease a tiny minority. I suspect Kinsley is playing devil's advocate, offering up abolition as a red herring and then, when that is rejected, countering with gay marriage as a compromise. It's an extremely cynical tactic, but apparently nothing is out of bounds if you're dead set on legalizing gay marriage.

MORE: Maybe Kinsley's abolition proposal is less of a tactical (as opposed to a principled) move than I thought. Reason's Hit & Run notes that libertarians got out ahead of him and proposed the same thing. And libertarians wonder why no one outside their movement really takes them seriously. Abolishing marriage has to be the singularly most idiotic proposal I've heard in a very, very long time.
Post to del.icio.us

Posted by B. Preston on July 2, 2003 12:08 PM
Trackbacks: View (0)Ping
Comments

You’re talking to the wind when you talk about morality, because Sullivan and his crew have not the least interest in morality.

True. But I’m not really talking to Sullivan, but anyone who might buy his line. Sulli’s a lost cause and is a full blown apostate.

The defenders of marriage realize that all the talk about gay marriage is merely an attack on “straight” marriage, just the latest battle in a war to destroy marriage that’s been going on since feminism defined marriage as oppression. The legitimation of children, the continuity of bloodlines and the stability that only blood relationships can supply constitute such a valuable part of man’s life that I do not think the attack will ever succeed. After all, even Andrew Sullivan had a mother and a father. Also, the fact that some 43% of homosexuals report having had more than 500 sexual partners shows the silliness of the concept of gay marriage. But it’s worse than silly, more serious than a fake and a delusion. It targets the nuclear family for destruction by redefinition.

Good post, Bryon. “Gay marriage” is not only a “redefining of the institution [of marriage],” it is a logical and moral cul-de-sac.

Posted by George Peery on July 2, 2003 6:03 PM

If you give government control of maraige then you get the “gay marriage” as a result.

If you give churches control of marriage some churches will marry gays.

I don’t see how what some goofs down the street do in the name of marriage affects my children or my wife and me. Perhaps gays like blacks give off vibrations that ruin the social order. At least something of the sort was used to justify keeping blacks from marrying whites. It was claimed that if you allowed that sort of thing that marriage would never be the same.

I’d say that once we decided that states could not decide who could marry the marriage of a man to a man or woman to a woman is/was inevitable.

I think the libs are correct. It is up to individuals to decide who they want to marry. It is not the business of the state. if it is the business of the state then I would work towards keeping white people from marrying eaxh other. in the name of diversity. That ought to make every one happier no?

Freedom of association is a higher principle than state control of marriage.

Posted by M. Simon on July 3, 2003 1:56 PM

If marriage is a religious institution the 1st Amendment says government may neither help nor hinder it.

Thus under the sacrament argument if a church wants to marry gays the government must recognize it. Just because such recognition does not match your religion has nothing to do with our constitutional government.

Please think clearly. Do not let emotionalism run your politics. It ruins the rule of law.

BTW not all churches consider marriage a sacrament. That adds another problem to your thesis.

So not only is the marriage - sacrament idea bad law, it is bad religion as well.

Other than the total lack of logic and the lack of respect for other religious traditions it is a nice rant.

Posted by M. Simon on July 3, 2003 2:18 PM

Funny that the biblical basis for the first part of this post discusses none of the actual marriage stories of the Old Testament into account. Last I recall polygamy and incest were not all that uncommon and were even at times sanctioned by God in some of these stories. How do all of these stories fit into your biblical rationale for monogamous, heterosexual marriage?

Go back and read the post again—I addressed the polygamy issue. It was common, and nearly always ended in disaster. But I didn’t supply details, so here are a few. The possibility of polygamy led King David to murder Uriah the Hittite. Later, David’s sons rebelled against him constantly, jealousy between them resulting in part from their having different mothers played a huge part. Solomon’s many wives from various kingdoms led him into idolatry, which led to the dissolution of Israel as a united nation. Abraham’s use of the concubine Hagar to conceive Ishmael led to strife with his wife Sarah, and he eventually had to kick both Hagar and Ishmael out of the house. By contrast, Moses had one wife and we never hear of any strife between them. Ruth married Boaz, was his only wife and the two were happy. Jacob married the sisters Leah and Rachel, and paid for it in terms of strife between the children of each wife—the sons of Leah eventually got so jealous of Joseph (son of Rachel) that they sold him into slavery in Egypt.

Polygamous marriage isn’t optimal—the original definition of marriage, and its earliest mention, is in terms of a man-woman covenant. Look it up if you don’t believe me. That principle was defied, as were many others, by Biblical personalities and such defiance nearly always brought about strife either for the family or for the whole nation if the king happened to be the polygamist.

Posted by Bryan on July 3, 2003 11:44 PM

The reason the term “marriage” can never be used to legitimately describe same-sex unions, is that the origin of the institution is religeous. Marriage is an institution begun by the Living God, Jehovah, whom Christians know as the Trinity. As partial proof I ask; what man in his right mind, would ever limit himself to one wife when he could have many? This would have to be done by a man in power, considering that it would have to be enforced on others for it to flourish. Since we know that power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely (without God, that is)—(see the life of King David)what absolute ruler was responsible for this seemingly universal marriage law. No— it seems that all evidence points to a divine origin for the institution of marriage. Having established that God is the creator and definor of marriage, it is up to Him to change it, if it is to be changed at all. So far, He has not done this, nor has He given any evidence of this in His word, the New and Old Testaments of the Bible. Does gay “marriage” effect hetero marriage? Not those already in existence. However, those young persons growing up in such a society, would learn to further devalue an institution largely responsible for the current strength of nominally Judeo-Christian nations worldwide. The further undermining of this institution responsible for providing children, which are a nation’s future economy, would require governments to aggressively seek immigrants to fill the economic void. The results of this in Canada have caused a national identity crisis. It seems that those being added to the society do not come from Judeo-Christian backgrounds. This causes the society eventually to change to one of multicultural confusion, rather than one of principalled steadfast purpose. This is bad, not because the new culture is either inferior or superior, but because there becomes too many cooks in the kitchen, which can result in anarchy as we stumble forward with no apparent direction. If we in Canada thought that bilingualism and Quebec separatism was a thorny issue, wait until non Judeo-Christian groups are the majority rather than a small faction of our society. At that point, we who established the nation in a democratic setting, will no longer control the direction of the nation. That may or may not cause concern, but what happens if the majority in such a society prefer a non-democratic government? At that point our identity as founders of a nation will be over. What is the remedy for this? Should we slow immigration…NO. What we must do is renew our belief through knowledge, not blind faith, in the institutions that made this country strong from the beginning. One of those institutions that gave us strength was marriage. The settlers of this nation were not the greedy corporations from England, nor the opportunist voyageurs or gold miners. They were the monogomous married pioneer families, who through the strength of those families made this nation inhabitable from sea to sea. What made us strong before can make us strong again—a belief in Judeo-Christian values that command us to join one man with one wife, to love and serve our wives and families, to work hard, have many children, love our neighbours, help those less fortunate no matter what their ethnicity or nationality, and work together as a community (not a federal government)for the betterment of all.

I believe that no religion should ever force anyone to believe anything. Therefore, if gay couples wish to join in a lifelong union, that should be their right to do so. However, to usurp the term “marriage” is not a defense of their inalienable rights, but an attack on those people’s beliefs that hold marriage to be a sacred God-given gift. To insist on the term “marriage” is to persecute those who hold that homosexuality is immoral. We are supposed to be a tolerant society, so where is the tolerance to be found in those who wish to enforce their wills on Bible-believing Cristians and Jews? Marriage is a religious term and as such is not subject to the whims of democracy, but to the will of almighty God in heaven, who in Ezekiel states “I do not change.”

To say that the word marriage is not to be given to a homosexual couple devoted to eachother, who also may very well be devoted to God…is rediculouse “Its an attach on straight people.” Please give it a rest get a life…It is the year 2003..and we’ve learned woman should have equal rights,diffrent religions have rights,the kkk can still gather,black, white, blue or green can vote. But if you’re gay no matter how wonderful a person,or loving you don’t have the right to be married to your partner?!! Because people in politics push their religion on the american people…Quote the bible..and not every us citizen is Christian!!! Today people can go on T.V. and play on a “reallity” show to marry a complete stranger. In Vegas People marry one night stands…And homosexuals cannot be united through marriage. If It Is such a sin let God handle it in the end who are you to judge!?

originally posted by Preston B.

“Marriage as an institution began, at least in written form relevant to our culture, in an explicitly religious context: The Bible.”

“Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.” —Genesis 2:24

“Genesis is about 5,000 years old, give or take a few centuries.”

—————————————————-

ok first of all nowhere does it say in Genesis that marriage, as we understand it today, as a holy sacrament joined by god in the Christian tradition, is mandatory. it is simply relating a process of natural propagation of the species. those words, if read for what they are, really imply this.

secondly Genesis is NOT 5000 years old. were did you get this information from. ok Abraham entered egypt roughly 1850 b.c. during the hyksos invasion. prior to that egypt’s borders were impenetrable. it is believed that abraham entered during this period of unrest.

now at this point in history, moses wasn’t even born. genesis is part of the mosaic law, the torah, the hebrew bible, an oral tradition passed down through the ages until it was transcribed at the sanhedrin roughly 700 b.c. that’s hardly 5000 years. for the record moses lived during the reign of akhenaton roughly 1300 b.c.

genesis is supposed to be the history of the jews. but the mythology is a mixture of egyptian & babylonian.

i ca’t get ino a big discussion on this but please don’t post mis-information. it’s disingenuous.

Posted by anthony on October 12, 2003 12:22 PM

The problem with this argument is that people arguing the pro-homosexual marriage side are not listening to those who are refuting it as a legitimate union. The reason men cannot marry men and women cannot marry women has nothing to do with the fact that heterosexuals don’t understand that homosexuals can love each other as much as heterosexuals. It has nothing to do with us trying to deny you the same rights of heterosexuals. The only issue here is that marriage is God’s union of man and woman - that is the DEFINITION of marriage. You can do all you want to make a commitment to your same sex partner, but you can’t call it marriage, because it isn’t. I’m sorry that people can’t seem to understand this, and frankly I’m getting tired of trying to explain it.

Posted by doug on October 15, 2003 4:44 PM

originally posted by Doug”

“It has nothing to do with us trying to deny you the same rights of heterosexuals.”

———————————————————————

what is this us & you? you’re assuming i’m gay which i’m not. did you read my post or did you skim through it? i was arguing the validity of the statement posted by Preston B. to be more precise his historical accuracy re: the biblical reference to Genesis being 5000 years old and the quote he chose to use as a legitimate law enacted by god. that’s his BELIEF and he’s entitled to it. i don’t agree & i posted some historical FACTS.

your definition of god is very one sided. god means different things to different people. a union between two people that love each other is made through their commitment towards each other. now for the sake of the discussion let’s leave homosexuals out of this and focus on hetereosexual love. assuming the bible is the only authority that can determine one’s salvation (of course that’s ludicrous) nowhere does it say in the bible that two people that love each other must be committed through a holy sacrament or else they fall short of the glory of god. this is a belief nothing else & when people force their beliefs on others those people are the most criminal minded & have nothing less than an agenda to fulfill.

Posted by anthony on October 15, 2003 10:55 PM
Post a comment